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to the Westward, and at this time the “Titanic” would expose her green light to a vessel which is heading E. N. E. The “Titanic” would be exposing a green light quite clearly. The Commissioner: At what time? The Attorney-General: I am speaking of the time now when the light was first seen. The Commissioner: When was that? The Attorney-General: The “Californian” stops at 10.20 and she shows the light. The Captain sees the light before he goes below into the chart room. It is between 11 and 11.30, he puts it. He says 11, and then in another question he says, it might have been a little later. But, in any event he sees the vessel coming towards him, and, heading as he was, the “Titanic” would be approaching him in the course she was taking, and heading, as he was in the “Californian,” he would see her starboard light. That is what he does see. He said at the question before that, which your Lordship referred to just now; where he said she was then about five miles off. “I saw it some time between 11 and half-past; I do not know exactly. (Q.) What distance do you think she was from you when you could see the lights? - (A.) About five miles. (Q.) As much as that? - (A.) About that, I should think.” Then after that the “Titanic,” when she comes into collision with the iceberg, also swings. The evidence about that is the evidence of Rowe, at page 419, Question 17658. He gives the same evidence. First of all he saw a light four or five miles off, and then he asked, at Question 17667, “When you saw this light did you notice whether the head of the ‘Titanic’ was altering either to port or to starboard? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) You did notice? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) Was your vessel’s head swinging at the time you saw this light of this other vessel? - (A.) I put it down that her stern was swinging. (Q.) Which way was her stern swinging? - (A.) Practically dead South I believe then. (Q.) Do you mean her head was facing South? - (A.) No, her head was facing North. She was coming round to starboard. (Q.) The stern was swung to the South? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) And at that time you saw this white light? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) How was it bearing from you? - (A.) When I first saw it it was half a point on the port bow, and roughly about two points when I left the bridge.” The Commissioner: What Question is that? The Attorney-General: That is 17667 to 17674. If your Lordship will look now at Gibson’s evidence at page 172 you will find the evidence of the “Californian” swinging, Question 7470. “Can you tell us whether your ship during that hour had been heading the same way, or whether she had shifted her position? - (A.) The ship was swinging round. (Q.) Your ship was? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) Of course, if your ship was swinging round, even though the other ship was stationary, after a bit her lights would bear differently from you? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) When you say it was 2 1/2 points upon the starboard beam, do you mean forward of the starboard beam? - (A.) Before the beam. (Q.) Five and a half from the bows? - (A.) Yes. (Q.) You say that the ‘Californian’. was swinging. Can you tell me, do you know, which way she was swinging? - (A.) She was swinging towards the nor’ard.” Then came the statement as to what he saw after that. If you look at page 186, Question 8150, you will find what Mr. Groves, the Third Officer, says about that. This is after he had seen the two masthead lights, your Lordship will recollect. “How were you heading? - (A.) At that time we would be heading N. E. when I saw that steamer first, but we were swinging all the time because when we stopped the order was given for the helm to be put hard a-port, and we were swinging, but very, very slowly.” He deals with this again at page 188. I will begin at Question 8239 so as to make it intelligible. “(Q.) It was after you had seen those white lights disappear that you had a conversation with him in which he said to you, ‘the only passenger steamer is the “Titanic’”? - (A.) That is so. (Mr. Rowlatt.) Did you have any further conversation with the Captain? - (A.) I did not. (Q.) Did he stay on the bridge or go down again? - (A.) I do not think he would have been up there for more than three minutes at the outside with me. (Q.) Then he went down again? - (A.) He did. (Q.) Did you stop on the bridge? - (A.) I stopped on the bridge. (Q.) Did you continue to observe the steamer? - (A.) After I had tried