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appointed at their request, but not by them. 24593. (Mr. Butler Aspinall.) Yes. (To the Witness.) The Sub-Committee really sits for the purpose of acquiring information for you - evidence and information? - That is so. 24594. They put it before the Committee, and then the Committee acts upon it? - That is so. 24595. That is the machinery? - Yes. Perhaps I put it a little too high in saying that the Life- Saving Appliances Committee is a Statutory Committee. That, again, is merely an Advisory Committee; it has absolutely no power to make Rules. The Board of Trade, before it makes Rules, has to consult with certain people. 24596. (The Commissioner.) I suppose the only body capable of making Rules is the Board of Trade itself? - That is so, my Lord, and if I may make it quite clear, when the Advisory Committee was first appointed, Mr. Lloyd George was then President, and he addressed us, and he made it perfectly clear that we were only there to advise the Board on such questions as the Board sought our advice upon; that we in no way relieved or could relieve the Board from its responsibility; and he went further and made it perfectly clear that we had nothing whatever to do with administration. We are merely consultative, and we have never been anything else. 24597. I am afraid the suggestion will be that the Board of Trade is always getting advice and never doing anything? - That is not the case with the Advisory Committee. The Commissioner: I do not say it would be a complaint well founded; I am far from saying that. 24598. (Mr. Butler Aspinall.) One matter which was submitted to you was as to the manner in which the boat scale should be continued - whether it should or should not be continued upwards? - That is so. I did not quite finish with reference to our Sub-Committee. The Sub- Committee, whose names I have given you, co-opted Mr. Carlisle and Mr. Thomas Royden. We asked them to come in and help. 24599. (The Commissioner.) First of all the Board appoints the Committee? - Yes, my Lord. 24600. The Committee then appoints a Sub-Committee? - Yes, my Lord. 24601. Which includes people who are not members of the Committee? - They have been added to the Advisory Committee by the Board of Trade so I suppose, my Lord, we must take it that they were members. 24602. And then that Sub-Committee co-opts? - That is so. 24603. When does the series of operations stop? Does it stop at the co-option? - Well, my Lord, that rests with us. We are there to advise the Board to the best of our ability; and we find it is the most convenient way of getting all the skilled help we can get in giving that advice. 24604. I have no doubt you are right; at all events you co-opted Mr. Carlisle? - Yes, and Mr. Thomas Royden. The Commissioner: Mr. Carlisle does not give himself a very good character, you know. 24605. (Mr. Butler Aspinall.) To finish with the composition of the Sub-Committee, were you appointed Chairman of the Sub-Committee? - I was. 24606. You have told us that one thing that had to be considered was as to whether or not the boat scale should be continued upwards. You also had, I think, specially to consider whether what we call Rule 12, that is, the additional boats, assuming the cubical contents required by the scale will not carry everybody on board - you had to consider whether Rule 12 should or should not be revised so as to exempt altogether from the requirements of additional boats and/or rafts, those vessels which are divided into watertight compartments to the satisfaction of the Board? - That is so. 24607. Those were the two matters you applied your minds to? - And there was one further matter, a question with regard to the particular construction of the best type of lifeboat. 24608. Very well. Now I think you held two meetings on the 19th and the 26th of May, 1911. Was Mr. Carlisle in attendance at both those meetings? - At both.